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Onward from the Hard Fork

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Vitalik Buterin


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Onward from the Hard Fork

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The foundation has committed to support the community consensus on the admittedly difficult hard fork decision. Seeing the results of various metrics, including carbonvote, dapp and ecosystem infrastructure adoption, this means that we will focus our resources and attention on the chain which is now called ETH (ie. the fork chain). That said, we recognize that the Ethereum code can be used to instantiate other blockchains with the same consensus rules, including testnets, consortium and private chains, clones and spinoffs, and have never been opposed to such instantiations.

All users who had ETH before block 1920000 now have both ETH (the fork chain) and ETC (the community effort to continue the no-fork chain). Users are generally advised that most Ethereum client defaults, including clients developed by the Foundation and by third parties (eg. Parity), will select the ETH chain; if you are offered a choice on a fork in the Mist interface, then selecting “Yes” on this choice will direct you to this chain.

Users who are interested in taking any actions with their ETC, including creating and participating in applications, converting to another asset, etc are advised to use the splitter contract at address 0xaBbb6bEbFA05aA13e908EaA492Bd7a8343760477 to move their ETC to a separate newly created account so as to avoid replay attacks; we also encourage the ETC community to consider adopting a secondary hard fork to change transaction formats to make further replay attacks impossible. Until and unless that happens, once ETH and ETC are “split” they should be managed via separate wallets.

To use the splitter contract from inside of the Ethereum Wallet, click on Contracts -> Watch Contract, copy the address and ABI from the above linked etherscan page, and click “OK”; then, click on the contract in the Contracts tab, select “Write to Contract”, and select the “Split” function. It will ask for two addresses; for the first, put the address where you want your ETH to go (feel free to put the same address you are sending from), for the second put the address where you want the ETC to go. Make sure to try this with a very small amount of ether first to verify that it works before increasing the amount. You may use the Ethereum Classic Explorer here to verify that ETC balances have been transferred. A more detailed community-provided guide can be found here.

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Vitalik Buterin

https://ethereum.org

Comments
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Author Shid

Posted at 3:02 pm July 26, 2016.

Will you support ETC as you will with ETH ?

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    Author Eli Bradley

    Posted at 3:58 pm July 26, 2016.

    “… we will focus our resources and attention on the chain which is now called ETH …” I infer from their language that ETC will be treated as an external project. They no longer support ETC but as a form of altcoin.

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Author Efynn

Posted at 3:03 pm July 26, 2016.

Has the EF considered selling all the ETC it has and maybe fund more projects or survive for a longer time? Is a valid move in my opinion and it states the support for the ETH chain.

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    Author Eluus

    Posted at 12:43 am July 27, 2016.

    They know they (might) have made a bad move so they won’t sell their coins on the original network.

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    Author Bruce Liman

    Posted at 12:15 pm July 27, 2016.

    I just want to send a message to Vitalik: Just keep up the good work and ignore all these id*ots out there. They talk, they steal, they try to cause problems… But finally none of them had the balls to make a new crypto currency with few seconds block time and designed to support smart contracts in a fashion way, running a crowdfund with their public image on the line.

    None of them have a 1 Billion dollar responsibility, you do, and you are doing a great work in the Cryptocurrency World.

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Author Cryptopascal

Posted at 3:06 pm July 26, 2016.

There is no need even to use a splitter contract: splitting can be done with a simple trick: https://np.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/4uo5iz/the_nobrains_trick_to_separate_your_eth_and_etc/

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Author miki miki

Posted at 3:09 pm July 26, 2016.

This blog post is 2 days too late mother fuckers, now burn with your ETH shitcoin, I hope ETC scamcoin eats you alive. I’m out, back to bitcoin.

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    Author Mathieu Buffenoir

    Posted at 3:50 pm July 26, 2016.

    While I mostly agree with you, I don’t think insults are necessary… Eveyrbody make mistakes.

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    Author bluerocket

    Posted at 7:46 pm July 26, 2016.

    If a hacker hacked your account and stole your money – following all the rules of logic and technological ability – does that mean that your bank should shrug its shoulders and say “Oh well – lets continue on?”

    No, you’d expect to be compensated. That compensation is called a hard fork. Except in the ETH version of the hard fork – other ETH users don’t lose through deflation and crime really doesn’t pay.

    Long live ETH.

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      Author None

      Posted at 9:02 pm July 26, 2016.

      Personally if the hack was due to my own negligence then I would say I should not be compensated. To much of the world relies on other people to do their thinking for them if you make a mistake you should pay for it.

      If we are just going to have a system that has to big to fail built in and bails out the wealthy then why don’t you just use a bank? All the major banks are already to big to fail and you can give them control of your assets and maybe they will give them back. I personally want to use something that doesn’t bail out people when they make mistakes and keeps me in control of my wealth.

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        Author Shakedog

        Posted at 12:30 am July 28, 2016.

        So using your own logic, if someone broke into your house, stole all of your stuff, beat you in the head with a tire iron, killed your pet, and molested your wife, you would blame it on your negligence for not having a better door lock?

        That is the opposite of helping you keep control of your wealth.

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Author Simon

Posted at 3:19 pm July 26, 2016.

Can’t wait for the next TBTF event.

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Author gravity

Posted at 3:32 pm July 26, 2016.

We (ETC development community) will not be hard forking to solve a problem created by a failure to properly hard fork your chain. It makes no sense for us to do this and especially when it would cost us more than it would cost the hard fork chain.

You have already effectively disconnected yourselves from all previous versions, there is no reason we should do the same purely for the benefit of your forked chain that was improperly coded.

If you have relay issues I recommend that you properly complete your hard fork. To do this you need to create a new rule set. You can find more information in my post about this. (https://www.reddit.com/r/EthereumClassic/comments/4ukp8m/to_be_clear_it_not_only_makes_no_sense_for_us_to/)

You are welcome to come discuss the topic with us directly on github instead of passive aggressively making posts with suggestions to hard fork without contacting us directly. You will need to back it up with good reasoning or evidence why we should make this change otherwise it will most likely be rejected, because simple appeals to authority will not be sufficient to make this change.

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    Author Сёма Мрачный

    Posted at 3:44 pm July 26, 2016.

    you’re a hard man. love it.

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    Author Swapster_com

    Posted at 4:15 pm July 26, 2016.

    Etheregen (a new, non-premined fork of Ethereum) will get this sorted out so you can spend your time on more important projects.

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    Author DigitalAndroid

    Posted at 4:46 pm July 26, 2016.

    It’s the minority chain that is vulnerable, not Ethereum.

    To everyone else:

    Don’t mind the new users such as “gravity” (created today). They’ve also created new accounts on Reddit, e.g. the 9 day old whatisgravity Reddit account, spreading lies to try to discourage and scare the Ethereum developers. This all looks like a cynical pump and dump scam, or worse, an attempt to harm Ethereum through cleaving divisions within the community, using social engineering attacks.

    If these scammers with their faux aggression and anger had any integrity, they’d post with their real account. I wouldn’t be surprised if one or more of these accounts are created by the DAO hacker.

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      Author gravity

      Posted at 4:52 pm July 26, 2016.

      The age of my account and my desire for psuedoanonymity do not have anything to do with the validity of my statements. I openly claim I desire psuedoanonymity and that my accounts begun as throwaways because I work on other open source projects and would prefer my work in this realm to stay away from my work elsewhere.

      You should address the points I made instead of trying to divert attention with red herrings. You can clearly see I’m also assisting on github to bring more independent developers to maintain the Ethereum clients.

      If there was better use of critical thinking instead of constantly resorting to logical fallacies and statements without any substance, reasoning or evidence we could have avoided a lot of problems that led us here.

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        Author DigitalAndroid

        Posted at 5:01 pm July 26, 2016.

        Your negativity and lies toward the Ethereum developers reeks of a social engineering attack. I don’t have the time to pick apart the comments made by every throwaway account that a scammer hides behind.

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          Author gravity

          Posted at 5:04 pm July 26, 2016.

          Your comment just lacks substance of any kind, I’m specifically asking you to address the topic and not just to resort to verbal attacks.

          Using verbal attacks while accusing me of negatively is highlighting why rational discussion is failing to be achieved.

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          Author DigitalAndroid

          Posted at 5:12 pm July 26, 2016.

          I’m not going to address the lies posted by every throwaway account. You have nothing invested in the account, so have nothing to lose from posting lies. The time it takes to spin up lies is much less than the time it takes to respond to them. If you want a serious treatment of your comments, then post with an account that you have reputation tied up in.

          Stop evading the fact that you’re using a throwaway account, and the massive red flags this puts up.

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          Author gravity

          Posted at 5:24 pm July 26, 2016.

          You have no time to actually participate in rational discussion yet you seem to have a lot of time to repeat the same insults. I assume you realize you are choosing deliberately halt any real discussion by doing so.

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          Author PuiuCS

          Posted at 6:22 pm July 26, 2016.

          come on dude. the “end of the world” speech is getting old. you’ll be able to fool a few uninformed retards, but the majority know better.

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          Author gravity

          Posted at 7:03 pm July 26, 2016.

          Your post not only makes contributes nothing but it could be seen as a form of hate speech.

          You should present yourself in a professional manner or lurk.

          Currently, you not only fail to contribute anything useful to the discussion, you are damaging the reputation of the whole community and the people whose position you are claiming to represent.

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          Author PuiuCS

          Posted at 9:11 pm July 26, 2016.

          the only hate speech here is yours. in a form very similar to how many scams on the internet appear.
          damaging reputation? community? claims?
          aren’t you the one trying to damage the reputation of ETH and making stupid claims on behalf of others? you are talking as if you the guy who represents all of the devs . that’s retarded.
          and the community? pretty sure the majority are ok with the hard fork otherwise it wouldn’t have been implemented. so you are not even speaking for the majority.

          let’s face it. all you want is to make a quick buck off some idiots by making them use ETC.

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          Author PuiuCS

          Posted at 9:14 pm July 26, 2016.

          i don’t need to present myself as a “professional” in the comments section that is the most retarded thing i’ve ever heard in my life.
          especially when speaking with a self entitled know-it-all that seems to think he’s always right.

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        Author Dez Rambson

        Posted at 5:24 pm July 26, 2016.

        You might think it’s not an issue, gravity, but it is when you claim to be speaking for the entire ETC dev community.

        I’m curious about this replay attack issue. DigitalAndroid claims it’s the minority chain that is vulnerable, yet you claim it’s the HF chain that is vulnerable. Can you fill me in on why ETC is not vulnerable, and it’s the HF chain that needs to fix these vulnerabilities?

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          Author gravity

          Posted at 5:27 pm July 26, 2016.

          Many of us have already discussed this topic, anyone is able to weigh in and disagree. However they would need to realize that introducing a hard fork at this stage would cause some people to not upgrade and again split the network. I and many others would not follow a hard fork aimed simply to fix mistakes made by the ETHF developers.

          In previous discussions I have taken care to clarify that my opinion does not invalidate others in the community and everyone should voice their concerns on the subject.

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        Author Vladimir Ghetau

        Posted at 9:56 pm July 26, 2016.

        I have a feeling you invested a lot in the old BitCoin, nobody has so much energy to go through all this fake account creation. I like Ethereum, and like any software projects, takes few iterations to get it right. And that should be completely OK.

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          Author Eluus

          Posted at 12:57 am July 27, 2016.

          Except there wasn’t anything wrong with Ethereum.

          Software projects shouldn’t go through an hard fork every time another program that utilizes the software project fails.

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        Author Shakedog

        Posted at 11:59 pm July 26, 2016.

        That’s understandable however there’s a certain element of trust inherited when a person’s history can be verified. Reputation is important and without it, there will always be people who question your identity and motives. Don’t be surprised if people don’t want to lock arms with you because they can’t verify who you are.

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      Author Tom Mornini

      Posted at 7:44 pm July 26, 2016.

      Thank you for demonstrating what “ad hominem” means.

      It makes it very simply to see who’s dialoging, and who’s conversing.

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    Author Shakedog

    Posted at 11:53 pm July 26, 2016.

    I’m sure there will be information forthcoming on why a hard fork will be necessary. Please don’t look at that statement as an attack. The beautiful thing about this space is that things can be proven mathematically. This is an exciting time, for both sides 🙂

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    Author Black

    Posted at 10:43 am July 27, 2016.

    Drop your ETH funds to the hacker wallet to prove this! You my friend a liar and you just want to make proffit out of this situation no matter what.

    The good intentions of the foundation were countered with bad intentions using a noble cause.

    They had a situation to fix and they did it. You want to say it is ok to steal and do nothing just to prove how “without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference” the network is. I think is the hate and the wish to see someone suffering that drives you.

    They, the devs, should fucking lose their ETH because they deserve it! That is what drives you! Make no mistake about it.

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    Author ultimatecurse

    Posted at 6:21 pm August 2, 2016.

    I was just on github and everyone still is using ethereum to create apps not ethereum classic.

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Author spiroseliot

Posted at 3:48 pm July 26, 2016.

you simple create a mess in a rush to save your money.

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Author ciaranmurray

Posted at 4:05 pm July 26, 2016.

Could you countenance re-focusing on the unforked chain if the market decides there is more value in it?

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Author 9aFNGR

Posted at 4:26 pm July 26, 2016.

Vitalik, what do you think of the things stated in this post? https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4unpm3/the_dao_and_the_benefactors/

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    Author spiroseliot

    Posted at 8:21 pm July 26, 2016.

    someone will sue them for sure

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      Author Shakedog

      Posted at 12:35 am July 28, 2016.

      So somehow they’ll get sued by returning all the funds because of the fork, but had they not forked, they wouldn’t have been sued because after all, “code is law”. Ya. Makes perfect sense to me.

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Author Dmitry Khovratovich

Posted at 4:32 pm July 26, 2016.

There is a cheaper and oracle-free split contract. https://etherscan.io/address/0x23141df767233776f7cbbec497800ddedaa4c684

Reasoning behind and instructions are discussed here https://medium.com/@khovratovich/insecurity-of-split-contracts-42cb41a1a94d#.esbivnmxf

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Author DigitalAndroid

Posted at 4:45 pm July 26, 2016.

Don’t mind the new users such as “gravity” (created today). They’ve also created new accounts on Reddit, e.g. the 9 day old whatisgravity Reddit account, spreading lies to try to discourage and scare the Ethereum developers. This all looks like a cynical pump and dump scam, or worse, an attempt to harm Ethereum through cleaving divisions within the community, using social engineering attacks.

If these scammers with their faux aggression and anger had any integrity, they’d post with their real account. I wouldn’t be surprised if one or more of these accounts are created by the DAO hacker.

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Author Tommy

Posted at 4:47 pm July 26, 2016.

Hi there, I had ETH before the fork, where do I find my ETC? I have the Ethereum Wallet 0.8.1

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    Author Jason

    Posted at 4:54 pm July 26, 2016.

    If you had ETH before the split. You now have ETC and ETH in the same address after the split.

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      Author Tommy

      Posted at 5:00 pm July 26, 2016.

      Jason thank you so much for replying. I’m really a noob. How can I transfer this to Poloniex? I don’t want ETC.

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        Author Jason

        Posted at 5:26 pm July 26, 2016.

        My advice to you, if you don’t understand what the replay attack is, forget about ETC. Anything you do to your ETC can be duplicated to your ETH. Eg if you move ETC out of your address, an attacker can also move ETH out of that same address.

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        Author Perry Latour

        Posted at 5:34 pm July 26, 2016.

        Make sure you’re on the right chain before you send your funds. You don’t want to accidentally send your Ether to an address you don’t control.

        I simply used a clean install of the wallet found here: https://github.com/ethereum/mist/releases/download/0.8.1/Ethereum-Wallet-win64-0-8-1.zip

        Looks like the same as yours. I selected “no” when asked if I support the DAO fork. That was all that was required of me to be on the “Classic” chain.

        Note: If you already have a copy of this wallet then you will probably need to change your folder name within appdata. Make sure you back up your wallet before you do anything.

        Best way to do this is probably in a VM.

        Hope it helps. I’ll take any ETC you don’t want.
        0x2b558ac0A4d26e20E337117300408bb7B4dD83B5

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          Author Tommy

          Posted at 5:52 pm July 26, 2016.

          Thanks so much Perry, but this is wayyy beyond my comprehension. I only use Word and watch youtube. Youtube is exactly what got me into this mess.

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Author Gunther Pieters

Posted at 5:12 pm July 26, 2016.

So you have become a tool of the rich. Satoshi didn’t invent the
blockchain for bail outs. Forking for 1 contract is selling your soul, doesn’t matter how much money is in that contract.
I respected you, but you lost my respect. I don’t trust you anymore. I will
never buy Eth again in my life. Eth is the forked corrupted chain, ETC the original pure one. The people have the choice now and I hope they chose wisely, in the spirit of Satoshi.

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    Author DigitalAndroid

    Posted at 5:18 pm July 26, 2016.

    Wow, way too critical. Ethereum is a young project, and these kinds of things can be expected in the beginning.

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      Author Gunther Pieters

      Posted at 5:26 pm July 26, 2016.

      50% of DAO was held by 10 entities. The DAO stated ‘contract is law’ and ‘high risk’ at their website. It’s a bail out of the rich and I can’t be critical about that? Satoshi’s principle is priceless. If these kind of things can be expected in the beginning, then people can expect to lose money as well. It’s the DAO devs that dismissed warnings the DAO could be drained and on top they get rewarded for their ignorance and asshole behaviour with a fork. Friends bailing out friends, corrupted as hell man.

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        Author DigitalAndroid

        Posted at 1:56 am July 27, 2016.

        It’s saving at least $50 million, 5% of all the money supply, that was to be invested in the Ethereum economy. The rescue can be justified by the fact that the community had no experience with smart contracts. The way the community as a whole handled the DAO was a beginner’s mistake. The entire community failed to provide enough warning about the risks. The failure, and the HF to fix it, can be justified by the lack of experience the community had. Next time a major hack happens, there won’t be a similar justification for a HF.

        In short, you’re being way too critical IMO. What happened can be easily forgiven for a young project.

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          Author 9aFNGR

          Posted at 3:24 pm July 27, 2016.

          You’re so easy to forgive someone else’s losses, aren’t you?

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    Author bluerocket

    Posted at 7:49 pm July 26, 2016.

    A hard fork is not a bailout – not sure why people keep making this comparison. Its a reversion to the way things were without the criminal getting to keep ill gotten gains due to a logic error.

    Didn’t you know ETC stands for EThereum Criminal?

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      Author Gunther Pieters

      Posted at 8:12 pm July 26, 2016.

      No I didn’t know, I heard Etc stands for Ethical and Eth stands for Ethereum Hoax. Also justice system is there if you want to report a crime. But in this case it’s not even a crime because the contract allowed it. You can call it a logical error or whatever you want. Too bad, but if you burn your ass, you’ll need to sit on the blisters. Vitalik and the foundation are playing judge, the law and time traveller, it’s not even their place, it’s a centralized approach and people don’t want that. They bailed out the banks in 2008, now this desease is infecting the crypto space. What a joke.

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        Author Cascadia Coin

        Posted at 11:05 pm July 26, 2016.

        ETC = Every Criminals Choice where every day is a Hack-ETH-on

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          Author Gunther Pieters

          Posted at 12:12 am July 27, 2016.

          ETH = In fork and bail outs we trust, every bankster’s choice!

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    Author Shakedog

    Posted at 12:18 am July 27, 2016.

    Forking to save a contract is selling your soul? Wow. There’s a bright future for you in journalism. Click bait is highly valued these days.

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      Author Gunther Pieters

      Posted at 12:33 am July 27, 2016.

      Clearly you don’t understand why Satoshi invented the blockchain. Unfortunately you’ll never have a bright future in history topics. You might succeed as a mediocre troll though.

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        Author Shakedog

        Posted at 1:57 am July 27, 2016.

        I’m not attacking your message. I’m attacking your language. It’s the same reason politics doesn’t interest me. If that’s trolling to you, I’m not losing any sleep.

        I won’t have a bright future in history topics? Ohhhhkaayyy. I guess that puts me in my place.

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          Author Gunther Pieters

          Posted at 1:31 pm July 27, 2016.

          I apologise, I actually don’t want to get nasty at people. So I’ll take my words back. The funny thing is I almost had a career in journalism lol.

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          Author Shakedog

          Posted at 2:11 pm July 27, 2016.

          That is pretty funny. Well thank you for understanding 🙂

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      Author ultimatecurse

      Posted at 2:51 pm July 27, 2016.

      Anonymity, is the breeding ground for bad behavior on the internet.I actually invested into eth after they did the hard fork. I want to invest in crypto that wont let people steal from other people. If you guys want hackers hacking good luck hoping your crypto keeps its value. I know people that lost a ton of money with bitcoin that followed all the safety measures to see their account empty. Enjoy the hackers all enjoy the hard forks with eth. People have realized decentralized just means here comes the hackers.

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        Author Shakedog

        Posted at 12:22 am July 28, 2016.

        It’s time for this space to mature. It’s been canabalizing itself for too long. Completely agree.

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Author Tommy

Posted at 5:43 pm July 26, 2016.

I really really want my ETC on poloniex to sell it, but this is way too complicated for me. I did the contract thingy 3 times but I guess to no avail. I don’t see it on my Poloniex.

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Author dooglus

Posted at 5:50 pm July 26, 2016.

When I contributed to the ICO, I was paying for you to work on “a decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference.” (source: ethereum.org, front page, first paragraph)

That chain was recently renamed from ETH to ETC because ETH was mutated by a community in favor of censorship, fraud, and third party interference.

Shouldn’t you continue working on the chain that you were funded to work on? The one “without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference”.

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    Author Tomasz Kolinko

    Posted at 5:56 pm July 26, 2016.

    You know that you can withdraw all the money you contributed during ICO, with 30x the profit? If you don’t like what the foundation does, do that.

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      Author dooglus

      Posted at 6:42 pm July 26, 2016.

      It’s not that I don’t like the work they do. It’s that they’re now doing it on the wrong side of the fork.

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        Author bluerocket

        Posted at 7:43 pm July 26, 2016.

        No, you are on the wrong side of the fork. The chain without any possibility of downtime censorship, third party interference AND exploits is called ETH. Over 90% of us have decided that in a world where nefarious exploiters have tried to circumvent the original intention and purpose of ETH to continue to support ETH and eventually a new DAO. There is a difference between purpose, intent and accomplishment.

        ETH still has the same purpose and intent – even if the goals it set out to accomplish have not yet been fulfilled – it will do that eventually.

        Sometimes following simple logic is illogical.

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          Author koribdus

          Posted at 4:55 pm July 31, 2016.

          This is the problem with democratic decisions. It turns into mob rule. We all had a contract. Now it has been broken. The Ethereum project has proven one very important thing. We humans are not ready for decentralization.

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          Author bluerocket

          Posted at 6:15 pm July 31, 2016.

          I humbly disagree. We just had a conflict about a money supply that was resolved with each side choosing to go its own way in peace and without resorting to conflict. From a historical perspective there is usually a war by now. I would say it shows that we have found a system that allows for peaceful disagreement that doesn’t come at the cost of free trade.

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          Author koribdus

          Posted at 2:12 am August 1, 2016.

          Interesting that you think there was no war. Sides were chosen because of unrest due to factions demanding change to the constitution. One group exercised power over the other and exiled them from the homeland requiring them to declare autonomy. Both countries have lost GDP because of this war, but the exiled now live in poverty and have been left with few non-monetary resources. The conflict did not involve bombs and guns, but rather ones and zeros; equally as potent a weapon.

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          Author bluerocket

          Posted at 8:22 am August 1, 2016.

          No one was exiled – which is the key point. The faction chose to split because it did not get its way. The reaction is more akin to that of a petulant child who didn’t get the juice box.

          One faction chose to uphold hard logic over rationality – and then chose to “destroy GDP” – but that’s the point – they made a choice and were free to make that choice.

          The only ones complaining are that faction – a faction that chose to support an exploiter over the rest of the community that are trying to “build GDP” for everyone involved.

          So why complain?

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          Author koribdus

          Posted at 9:08 am August 1, 2016.

          If your country was taken over by a faction that instituted sharia law, and this was not compatible with your ideology, or the garontees of your constitution, wouldn’t you leave? Would that be akin to a childish outburst? Perhaps these analogies are getting too far afield. Plainly stated, Immutability of the ETH block chain is forever compromised. Bailouts prolong the inevitable and beget subsequent failures.What will prevent a majority from making any change, any time. What if enough of the stake holders decide that you have enough wealth and redistribute it? Any number of preceived injustices could be corrected in this brave new world.

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          Author Christian Seberino

          Posted at 9:53 pm July 31, 2016.

          Well put. The only thing I would add is that the “humans” need to think about how to design the tech so that censorship is as close to impossible as we can get it.

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        Author Louis Drapeau

        Posted at 11:04 pm July 26, 2016.

        One must understand, Ethereum is managed by humans, in a fair way were the majority decides what to do when something “bad” happens. If you disagree it’s better to leave now and go where you prefer, if you agree life goes on. We all understand your deception, but I fell better knowing humans are looking after my ether, and I understand weird things can happen. When I’m not happy I will leave.

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          Author Eluus

          Posted at 2:28 am July 27, 2016.

          Then go make a verbal contract, what’s the use of a contract that consists of code?

          You’re contradicting yourself

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          Author Christian Seberino

          Posted at 9:50 pm July 31, 2016.

          The original description of Ethereum wasn’t that it would be managed by OPEC. dooglus quoted the exact description which contradicts the hard fork.

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        Author Tomasz Kolinko

        Posted at 1:51 pm July 27, 2016.

        I’m just saying that you can’t argue they owe you anything because of the presale. There was no promise they’d listen to anyone when they made the presale, and definitely not the minority. And you can withdraw your support at any time, and you won’t lose anything.

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    Author Richard Ayotte

    Posted at 2:39 am July 27, 2016.

    Pick your chain and f*ck off. Stop telling people what to do. You invested some money, you made a shit ton return and now you’re ordering people around like king crypto. Look, this is a meritocracy which means the stake holders control everything and in this particular case some chose ETC and others ETH. Everyone is happy because they had the freedom to choose. We should all be ecstatic for creating a real meritocracy!

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      Author Christian Seberino

      Posted at 9:47 pm July 31, 2016.

      How is he “telling people what to do” by asking a question?

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        Author Richard Ayotte

        Posted at 9:56 pm July 31, 2016.

        Passive aggressive.

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          Author Christian Seberino

          Posted at 1:15 am August 1, 2016.

          Perhaps. On a related topic you are right that now there is a choice. It reminds me of the distinction between open source and free software……pragmatists vs. idealists.

          What is odd is that my simple analogy implies the people who have strong values and ideals about censorship and other causes should use ETC. I would think a project would WANT people with strong principles.

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          Author Christian Seberino

          Posted at 1:16 am August 1, 2016.

          I’m not saying people on ETH don’t have strong principles……I’m just saying good tech people with integrity are a scare commodity….It is shame the resources will be divided.

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          Author Richard Ayotte

          Posted at 3:23 pm August 1, 2016.

          Divided is better than irrelevant.

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          Author Richard Ayotte

          Posted at 3:22 pm August 1, 2016.

          Returning the money to the rightful owners is justice and justice trumps most other principles. 90% voted for justice, the hard fork.

          Not hard forking would have been detrimental to Ethereum. 90% of the ether holders would have traded for some other cryptocurrency that’s better aligned with their principles. Ethereum would have disappeared into the large pool of mostly irrelevant cryptocurrencies.

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          Author Christian Seberino

          Posted at 3:48 pm August 1, 2016.

          2 things….

          Are you going to support a hard fork for EVERY buggy contract that causes people to lose money? Do you agree that the only people practically speaking that will get a bailout are insiders with good standing in the ETH oligarchy? It is crony capitalism all over again! (I know some people disagree with the term “bailout” and the term “oligarchy” was just to be provocative to prove a point with a little hyperbole.)
          I heard the Carbon Vote had 20% of user and miners opposed.

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Author Juaneta Patton

Posted at 5:56 pm July 26, 2016.

I have a question. I am a miner but I don’t know a lot about it. Now my question is, do I only send the amount of ethereum that I had at the time of the fork? Or can I submit it all to be split, even the extra ethereum that has been mined since the fork? I have been mining on the forked chain.

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Author Mukul Thakur

Posted at 6:44 pm July 26, 2016.

DAO-saster

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Author Adam Byrne

Posted at 7:30 pm July 26, 2016.

Vitaly The Incompetent Rothschilde – you’re a clown.

When you’re in a deep hole you must remember not to keep digging.

Time to exit stage left & leave things to professionals – who actually know what they are doing.

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    Author Roland Kofler

    Posted at 11:23 pm July 26, 2016.

    Seems Adam Byrne is a “professional” letz fork and go with EthByrne!!!

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      Author Adam Byrne

      Posted at 11:28 pm July 26, 2016.

      Haha funny, good humour. Thanks Roland.

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        Author Roland Kofler

        Posted at 11:36 pm July 26, 2016.

        I don’t find it very funny. And of course I find your rages annoying. Stay with the facts, that would help.

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          Author Adam Byrne

          Posted at 11:39 pm July 26, 2016.

          No rage here Roland, I have a great life. Never get annoyed either. You should try it Roland.

          Vitaly is incompetent – that’s an undeniable fact.

          He should retire now before he makes any more disastrous decisions or writes any more inept code.

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          Author Roland Kofler

          Posted at 11:50 pm July 26, 2016.

          “Vitaly is incompetent – that’s an undeniable fact.”
          Wow, if this is an undeniable fact I have no wonder how we came to gravity. I kind of enjoy to play with stupid people and you qualify.

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          Author Adam Byrne

          Posted at 2:18 am July 27, 2016.

          No sooner do some people gain a semblance (to them) of decentralized ‘freedom’ by using BTC & ETH & (not so) smart contracts etc. do they throw themselves back into crazy half-baked, centralized schemes like the pig with lipstick called #TheDao and the #HardFork and then they want to find ‘consensus’ and ‘solidarity’ in the ‘community’. I don’t want any of the above, I want individualistic decentralized freedom for myself and for everyone else!

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          Author Roland Kofler

          Posted at 8:50 am July 27, 2016.

          Since your competency is higher than that of the Ethereum founder, It’s easy to fork into your special brand of decentralization utopia. I’m waiting for it, but I bet it will not materialize. Speaking of pigs and lipsticks …

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          Author Shakedog

          Posted at 12:16 am July 27, 2016.

          At least spell the guy’s name correctly. No one is forcing anyone to follow him and yet he continues to speak to packed houses. Are you suggesting they’re all “under his spell”?

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          Author Adam Byrne

          Posted at 2:12 am July 27, 2016.

          Yes I am, that’s exactly what I am suggesting.

          They are in a Psychic Prison.

          Weak people who can’t think for themselves.

          In effect, lemmings.

          I would put a link here but I think it would be removed.

          Search for ‘The Psychic Prison Metaphor’ on Slideshare – it’s a presentation I made some years ago but had completely forgotten about until you mentioned people being under Vitaly’s ‘spell’.

          Some quotes from the presentation:

          “Group illusions of invulnerability, morality & unanimity foster “assumed consensus” which inhibit expressions of doubt & engender misguided decision-making”

          “Dependency: projection of leadership onto unsuitable people”

          “Pairing: unfulfilled expectancy of Messiah-like figures”

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          Author Shakedog

          Posted at 2:26 am July 27, 2016.

          For the record, you are suggesting the very person that conceived of Ethereum, wrote the whitepaper and galvanized a community needs to step down? You can have your cake and eat it too by supporting ETC and still, that’s not good enough for you? (Throws hands up in the air).

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          Author Adam Byrne

          Posted at 2:28 am July 27, 2016.

          I can do what I want Shakedog.

          Individualistic decentralized freedom.

          No consensus, no solidarity, no community.

          Is the penny starting to drop?

          CLUNK!

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          Author Adam Byrne

          Posted at 2:29 am July 27, 2016.

          You can call it IDF for short if you want.

          I won’t be taking out a copyright on that, thanks.

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          Author Shakedog

          Posted at 3:46 am July 27, 2016.

          Yep I think that’s how it works. We all do what we feel is best in the end.

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          Author Swapster_com

          Posted at 10:00 pm July 28, 2016.

          He’s 22. What were you doing at 22? You’re a nobody. Be an adult and stop hurling stupid insults. You’re making a fool of yourself.

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Author Michael Geister

Posted at 8:40 pm July 26, 2016.

I support ETC but I don’t appreciate people shitting on Vitalik and crew and saying rude things, they did the hard work actually writing the software, just respectfully disagree with their direction and go support ETC and go in another. I appreciate everything Vitalik has done for the community even if I think he is making a mistake.

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    Author Adam Byrne

    Posted at 8:42 pm July 26, 2016.

    The guy just keeps on making mistake after mistake. If he’s not up to the job he should step aside.

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      Author nowprovision

      Posted at 5:43 am July 27, 2016.

      The problem is he will argue that he doesn’t need to step aside as he nor good guys at slock.it and other conflicted friends control ethereum, it’s a decentralized blah blah blah. The reality is that when Vitalik says jump, the majority of miners, ethereum software developers, involved exchanges and ethereum bloggers etc.. immediately react with “how high?” usually on one of “private” slack or Skype channels. Vitalik would later argue he had to beg the exchange to suspend ETH trading and discussions regarding forking where just an idea, the logs paint a different picture “STOP NOW” and hard fork implementation talks with 2hrs etc..

      ETC could face a similar problem in theory, but at least they’ve committed to no forks which limits any theoretical damage they could do.

      Smart contacts are a great idea, ETC is a great idea, ETH is about as authentic as Paycoin

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      Author MiriamB

      Posted at 9:37 pm July 28, 2016.

      I’m sorry,what were you doing when you were 19,what about 20?

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    Author Shakedog

    Posted at 12:11 am July 27, 2016.

    This is a great attitude to have. While I disagree that people should be ok with a hacker having stolen a large chunk of money that was supposed to be used for projects to enrich the community in the interest of rigid ideology, I can also respect people who don’t believe in social consensus. Cheers 🙂

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    Author Black

    Posted at 10:32 am July 27, 2016.

    So you support a passive attitude against thieves. If they steal from you move forward and let them be. I am trying to digest this … I fell nausea already

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      Author Michael Geister

      Posted at 3:02 pm July 27, 2016.

      I could easily justify to fork a coin to stop a terrorist group or a child pornographer from profiting with cryptocurrency too, what is the point at where miners say “alright we need to move heaven and earth to stop this.”

      Personally I would have felt better if the ETH that was sent to the DAO, instead of being returned to the investors, was burned instead. A bad investment decision was made all the way around, why do they get a “do-over”? If you invest in an alt coin and the value drops to almost nothing should you get your Bitcoin back?

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        Author Black

        Posted at 3:52 pm July 27, 2016.

        You are a hater and that is confirmed by your reply. Go ahead and support whatever your pathetic existence alows you to.

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          Author Michael Geister

          Posted at 3:54 pm July 27, 2016.

          Yes I am a hater, which is why I opened up my post with defending Vitalik, I got it.

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          Author Christian Seberino

          Posted at 9:42 pm July 31, 2016.

          Black: You are a hater and that is confirmed by your reply. Oh wait. Those types of name calling comments don’t accomplish anything.

          The bottom line is Michael Geister, et al believe strongly in principles. They should be applauded for acting on their beliefs.

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        Author Shakedog

        Posted at 4:55 am July 28, 2016.

        The reason I don’t think this argument works is because we are in beta and that is well-known. The DAO was way too early for its time. When a company releases a beta software and a bug is found that crashes a computer, is the project scrapped? No. The only difference with Ethereum is that huge investments are involved and the livelihoods of competitors are threatened. That’s why people who were anti Eth even when immutability wasn’t being challenged, are now publicly jumping on the ETC bandwagon. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but everyone is acting like it was and that the hard fork is proof of a fatal flaw in the protocol. Seems very short-sighted to me. This whole ETC vs. ETH thing is a joke and everyone knows it too, but hey, when there are profits to be made, ideology is justified as the reason for acting in barbaric ways. I’m not saying you’re in this camp, but a whole lot of people are and these people disgust me. I guess it’s human nature. We see this behavior in politics and religion. I didn’t expect to be so blatantly confronted with it in crypto. This space constantly surprises me.

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          Author koribdus

          Posted at 4:44 pm July 31, 2016.

          Who would invest in a Beta and expect their investment to be protected? When the risk to investment is removed or artificially diminished, it invites reckless risk taking, another future problem that will need to be addressed on both the investor and programmer sides. Remember TOO BIG TO FAIL in the US banking industry? The problem here with Ethereum is that there are too many losers, and they have all jumped at the chance to get out of a bad deal. ETH/ETC, what do I call the past iteration, was flawed. It wasn’t just the DAO. There are criminals out there! They predictably took advantage of the weakness. What you call short sighted, others call life in the big city. Leaving this whole thing alone was not an advection of the thieves, but rather maintenance of the laws of evolution.

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Author djr

Posted at 9:03 pm July 26, 2016.

I get an error “Couldn’t parse the JSON interface” when I try to watch the splitter contract.

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Author Larry Smith

Posted at 10:53 pm July 26, 2016.

People who held ETH with an exchange should ask the exchange for the value (equity) of their holding in both ETH and ETC, per this split contract option. Exchanges should provide this service automatically, as an act of good faith to their clients. Otherwise, they are simply stealing the equity their clients’ ETH position loses due to the hardfork’s split opportunity.

I just sent the below request to Kraken. I will post their response here when I receive it:

Hi –

I have held ETH since before the hardfork, and have not made any trades or transactions with my account. This means that I (and all others in my situation) should have funds that exist on both the ETC and the ETH chains simultaneously. I should be allowed to realize the full value of my current holdings (i.e. I should be the owner of the equity in both the ETC and ETH positions.) (See: https://steemit.com/ethereum/@pauls/ethereum-fork-step-by-step-guide-to-safely-splitting-your-eth-etc)

Will Kraken be honoring requests to use the split contract for the benefit of its clients? Or, will it try to keep its clients’ ETC side equity?

I currently have 22.5 ETH with Kraken, and I would be happy with 1 of 3 possible outcomes:

Kraken develop a way to trade on both chains, and credit my account with (22.5 ETH and 22.5 ETC).
Kraken maintain my balance of 22.5 ETH, and also send 22.5 ETC to an ETC address of my choosing).
Kraken maintain my balance of 22.5 ETH, and also allow me to redeem a one time credit in a currency of my choice for the value of 22.5 ETC at an execution time of my choosing.

I see ETC have little value in the future. However, it does currently have value, and I would like to realize its value and sell the position as soon as possible. I think you should extend this option to all of your clients (including the ignorant ones) as an act of good faith.

Thanks!

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    Author gcolbourn

    Posted at 11:54 pm July 26, 2016.

    Kraken should be dishing out the ETC at some point: https://twitter.com/krakenfx/status/758011228304257024

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    Author Larry Smith

    Posted at 3:56 am July 27, 2016.

    Below is Kraken’s response to my question above. They are doing the
    honorable thing, as I knew they would. They are a stand up organization
    with solid morals:

    RESPONSE:

    Hi Larry,
    Yes, we plan on adding ETC support, our developers are
    currently working on it and it should be available soon. Clients that
    held Ether in their Kraken account at the time of the hard fork will
    have the corresponding amount of ETC credited to their account. You will
    have the ability to trade ETC for other assets and also the ability to
    withdraw the ETC to an address of your choice.
    If you have any other questions or concerns, please let us know.
    Best,
    Jim

    Kraken Client Engagement

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Author gcolbourn

Posted at 12:05 am July 27, 2016.

I’d like to invest in ETC, but I’m a bit apprehensive as there doesn’t seem to be any public information about the people behind it – names, faces, credentials. Why are they hiding? This isn’t 2009 anymore, blockchain is pretty mainstream and acceptable!

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    Author Shakedog

    Posted at 2:38 am July 27, 2016.

    This, this, and this. People invest in people building technology, not technology itself. Who is at the helm of ETC? I see a few individuals making an effort and posturing, but mostly no one has put names to faces and quite frankly, that is not going to fly for long term investment. However, it does work well for a small minority who know how to create and sell hype. I’m not condemning ETC because I have no doubt there are some people involved with it who mean well, I’m simply pointing out the importance of building trust by revealing who they are, their verifiable backgrounds, and how they plan to add value going forward.

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Author Gunther Pieters

Posted at 12:25 am July 27, 2016.

@Vitalik: What are you gonna do with all your ETC, since you don’t support the chain anyway? Or are you gonna have your cake and eat it? Here’s my wallet address in the offchance you want to share some of that cake: 0x38e62d977814C9D224E8B86242eCb07038c5f268

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Author sLy5aM

Posted at 2:16 am July 27, 2016.

good job.. you guys managed to obliterate your own coin..

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Author Carlton Ashley

Posted at 4:32 am July 27, 2016.

ETC is the Bernie Bros of Crypto…

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Author sLy5aM

Posted at 5:29 am July 27, 2016.

Truth hurts

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Author Alex Vriend

Posted at 11:14 am July 27, 2016.

I bought pre-sales ethereum and like many others I am not actively following all the technical maneuvers with the ethereum currency.

Is it possible to explain in plain english what I and others must do to not lose any ethereums we have bought in the pre-sales.

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Author Get Liquid!

Posted at 11:38 am July 27, 2016.

I dumped my censored ETH and will buy uncensored ETC once my wallet syncs. Thanks for adding the option on mist VB

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Author WhySoS3rious

Posted at 11:44 am July 27, 2016.

Here is a tutorial on how to safely dump your ETC. Fight and Profit

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4ushub/tutorial_how_to_access_your_etc_and_sell_it_for/

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Author Learning about this stuff

Posted at 6:54 am July 28, 2016.

Wondering if I can claim some ETC? I converted my ETH to bitcoin after learning about ETC – thinking ETH values may be super volatile while things unfold. I had the ETH in Ethereum Wallet version 0.7.6, after the fork happened and converted them to BTC (sent it to another wallet then did conversion). I didn’t go through the process of getting what appears to be free ETC (the split) – anyone know if I can access ETC based on my past ETH holding?

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Author Virgil Fotachi

Posted at 5:16 pm July 29, 2016.

Unfortunately it does not work if you have a store-wallet contract with more than 1 sign-off accounts with a maximum daily limit, even if you approve the transfer. Do you have any suggestions?

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Author Leathan Axe

Posted at 11:00 pm July 29, 2016.

This is a troll post confirmed since its by “VB” and the real vitalik would know that he inherently dev’s for etc…..

Feel free to let me know if I’m wrong… otherwise im assuming this guy is trolling.

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    Author Leathan Axe

    Posted at 11:01 pm July 29, 2016.

    If you are real and for the record. ETH2.0 is the chain you are payed to work for and ETH1.0 is the one you inherent 😉

    So basically if your not trolling your still wrong lol.

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Author Bob Tuozzo

Posted at 11:30 pm July 29, 2016.

I just sent 7 eth from myetherwallet to an other wallet, using te option “** Only ETH: This sends via Timon Rapp’s replay protection contract (as recommended by VB) so that you only send on the ETH chain” and i’m not getting my eth on the wallet that i put on the address line.

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Author David I Hale

Posted at 11:44 pm July 29, 2016.

Just a word of warning – do not use the splitter contract to send you ETH to your Coinbase ETH wallet from Mist. Even though the splitter will successfully send it to your Coinbase wallet address, Coinbase is refusing to credit ETH sent from this contract and you will lose it – even though it’s confirmed in your Coinbase wallet address. Poloniex will accept the ETC from the splitter contract. This is the response I got from Rosie at Coinbase: “Unfortunately, Coinbase and GDAX is not able to support transactions
sent to or from Ethereum contract addresses, and we are unable to
recover Ether or other tokens deposited to your Coinbase or GDAX account
in this way.”

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Author Optimist911

Posted at 1:23 am July 30, 2016.

In terms of ETC and ETH, what is the final status of the funds stolen by The DAO attacker? Between the 28-day waiting period and various other complications, I find it difficult to settle on a definitive answer for my grandma.

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Author Joris de Ruiter

Posted at 12:46 am August 3, 2016.

So, coming out of all this discussion, disagreement and hard forking – our ether has now been doubled.

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Author Matt Campbell

Posted at 1:17 am August 11, 2016.

I think it’s interesting to compare how Bitcoin’s creator (Satoshi) stepped aside at a very early stage to make room for the community, while Vitalik is remaining firmly at the helm of ethereum. Makes for a great little social experiment, no? Maybe this is the chance we get to understand why Satoshi did choose to remain in the shadows…

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Author Gunther Pieters

Posted at 7:59 pm August 11, 2016.

I changed my mind, please never touch ETC again Vitalik! The same goes for the foundation and people like Tual. Stay away from it as far as possible. Honor your word and stay 100% on ETH.

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